No Dinosaurs on a Farm

***formerly known as "Cold & Calculating"

Thursday, February 09, 2006

Mis-Manners

I expect that everyone has witnessed a scenario like this: A child is given something; the child’s parent is there and prompts, “What do you say?”; the child responds—dutifully, correctly—“Thank you.”

This is a common occurrence, even to the point of being mundane. Nonetheless, it is just this type of situation that I have been pondering lately.

What are manners? Why do parents try to teach them? Do manners serve a purpose, and do parents have that purpose in mind when manners are taught? Can manners even be taught? Do manners come with a cost? What are “Bad Manners” and how do they differ from “Good Manners”? How is that distinction decided? How is that distinction made known?

Consider what is taught (or forced) when one child has wronged another. “Say you’re sorry,” the offender’s parent demands. Why? What outcome does the parent want or expect? At the simplest level, the parent may believe that an apology will mend the rift that has formed between her child and his “victim”—and any rift between parents as well. Going deeper, the parent may hope by this exercise to teach consideration for others or accountability for one’s actions.

Now, what is required of the injured child? Is the wrongdoer’s apology sufficient to repair any damage or ill-will? Let’s continue with the example in the preceding paragraph, and for simplicity and to highlight the issue let’s say that the children are siblings. There is often variation in what comes before the apology, such as some kind of punishment, but what is at issue here is what happens after the “I’m sorry.” In almost every case I have witnessed, once the apology is given the parent leaves the children to “carry on,” clearly showing that the parent believes that a goal has been reached. What is that goal? What has been achieved? What have the children—both offender and victim—learned?

I would say that the children have learned that: when you do something wrong you should say that you’re sorry. And I would also say that that is a meaningless lesson. Demanding that the offender do more, such as acts of restitution, moves beyond “Manners” and into something substantial, but I think it still falls short of the mark. The focus shifts to how the victim responds, and I think that here parents are neglectful in their teaching.

It should be obvious from what I have written that I think there is a correct response to an apology and that I require it from my daughters and myself. What do you think is the right response? Do you require a response from your child when she has been offered an apology? What is it?

9 Comments:

  • At 17 February, 2006 10:07, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    When my kids--especially my oldest--apologizes, he usually does it to us. The apology is typically not connected to the injury he caused, it is (again typically) strictly in response to our disappointment (sorry = 'Get off my back, Dad'). I'm pretty disturbed by this, and I have tried lately to consistently say something like: "Don't apologize to me, apologize to your sister, make sure she understands you're sorry." But I'm sure I'm teaching all kinds of bad lessons. I haven't really thought about the victim's response from there, but I'm dying to hear what you do.

     
  • At 17 February, 2006 12:23, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Hmmm. This one actually sent me to paper and pen for notes.

    First, let me state that what I say here will probably be in direct opposition to what I did when you were growing up. Remember, I no longer have 8 children running around trying to kill each other, and I now have 30+ years more experience than I had.

    The question of manners, in general. I believer manners is actually curteous behavior. How do you treat others in a civilized way? It is being polite, couth. It is please and thank you type of behavior. Something we see less and less of everyday. It is addressing your parents with respectful language, and others as well.

    As to your specific example. I think that goes beyond manners. What is the goal in requiring the offender to apologize. I think it is an attempt to diffuse a hostile situation in a hurry. To get things back to a truce. What does the offender learn--I will get off lightly if I apologize, regardless of whether the apologize is sincere or not. If required to tell the whole truth the apology would probably go something like this, "I am sorry I got caught."

    What does the victim learn. Well, the same thing the offender learns about apologizing. What response should be required from the vicitm. Certainly not, I forgive you. How about a simple thank you. Hurt feelings, or bruises if it came to that, take time to heal.

    This is a springboard for future teaching. When the victim becomes the offender, this prior experience can be used to teach empathy. How did you feel when your brother did such and such? Did you like that? How do you think he feels now that you have done such and such? What do you think you should do now?

    Of course, none of this reasoning works with a child younger than 4 or 5 because they can't reason very well yet. So then, I'm sorry and Thank you become teaching habits, just like having your toddlers take the sacrament. They don't need it. We just want them to learn the routine.

    Just remember, just because your child says I'm sorry it doesn't mean he/she really is. You can only be truly sorry for doing something if you have an understanding of how it really effected the victim, and you care. Work on helping them learn to love each other and the offender/victim situations will be easier to handle.

     
  • At 17 February, 2006 15:17, Blogger BrianJ said…

    ben--I hope what I do isn't a let-down.

    Mom--what I do is in opposition to what you wrote. (smile) You said:

    "Certainly not, I forgive you. How about a simple thank you."

    Well, I require myself and my daughters to say, "I forgive you." (And I require them to act that way afterwards.) My reasoning is that holding a grudge, remembering a wrong, withholding forgiveness will only prolong contention and eventually lead to greater tension. I want my daughters to learn that they must forgive always and that they must never delay in doing so. I think that "Thank you" is a step in that direction, but it doesn't carry the same power as forgiveness. It is certainly better than saying, "It's okay," which is how most people respond. I do not like "It's okay" because it is unproductive and untrue: Unproductive because it does not repair relationships, it merely says, "I'm alright despite wht you have done to me, and I will continue to be okay as long as you leave me alone." Untrue because it suggests that hurting someone is acceptable.

    mom also said:

    "Of course, none of this reasoning works with a child younger than 4 or 5 because they can't reason very well yet. So then, I'm sorry and Thank you become teaching habits, just like having your toddlers take the sacrament. They don't need it. We just want them to learn the routine."

    Yes, I follow your reasoning and I think that is where I will probably settle on the "issue" of manners. I don't like for my children to do things without thinking, but I realize that is an ideal that I haven't reached (far from it). But I try to be early rather than late in assuming what depth of reasoning my girls have. (By the way, Ann can reason this out very well--and I know that because she has astutely called me to repentance on the very subject!)

     
  • At 24 February, 2006 14:29, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Working in a childrens clothing store I see a lot of parents trying to be parents. The "say you're sorry" scenario comes up a lot and almost everytime after the sorry is said and mom turns her back the offender hits the offended, just an observation.

     
  • At 25 February, 2006 19:52, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    wow cathymonkey, that sounds like the beginnings of a groundbreaking study. I wonder if it is an act of defiance toward parental authority, or a demonstration of power over the victim even in light of the reprimand, or something else.

     
  • At 25 February, 2006 19:53, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Brian, I really like your approach, I am trying it.

     
  • At 08 March, 2006 01:13, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Just now getting a chance to respond.
    In the parent handout of a local cooperative preschool (not the one I belong to) it states their policy on this subject. They advise not to force the children to say they are sorry, because that is only teaching them to lie. I have been thinking this one over eversince I read that, and now Brian brings it up again.
    What I do is tell Lottie (age 3) to say she is sorry. And then I tell her to say why she is sorry. Because she took the toy and it made her sister sad. Then we talk about how she doesn't want her sister to be sad. Up until this point, she has agreed with all of this. And I feel she truly is sorry, atleast to the degree that she can understand the whole situation. Anyway, if and when she says, "I don't want to say sorry, because I'm not". Well, then what will I do. I suppose I'll say, okay, you don't have to say sorry if you aren't, but... well, I guess I'm stuck. Do I say then you have a time out until you are, that defeats what I'm trying to teach. For her to feel compassion, not just to learn how to get out of it. Well, I just realised that I just apologized to someone today. I told them I was sorry for how they were feeling (but I didn't say I was sorry for what I did, because I wouldn't change what I did. but I am truly sorry for their sadness.) So, I guess you really have to talk it through with your child. Help them understand what they are feeling and why.

    As for the "victim". I tell Lottie to say, "thankyou, for saying sorry". That's all I ask, because that is about all I get out of her when she is hurt. She really shuts down. I never tell her to say "that's okay", because I think that is sending the message that it is okay for someone to hurt her, and it could set her up to be a victim.

    Good topic, Brian.
    Marci

     
  • At 09 March, 2006 10:14, Blogger BrianJ said…

    ben,

    How is the experiment going?

    Marci,

    You said, "Anyway, if and when she says, "I don't want to say sorry, because I'm not". Well, then what will I do. I suppose I'll say, okay, you don't have to say sorry if you aren't, but... well, I guess I'm stuck."

    I can see the problem here and I'm not certain what to do. My overall approach is to teach honesty and consistency, and to ask myself, "What is my goal when I make my kid do _______ ?" I think your goal is ideal: help Lottie feel compassion for others. If you succeed at that, I doubt she will ever need to feel sorry for her actions.

    I don't think that the time-out is entirely bad, however. While it may not be teaching her compassion, it is teaching something else: being unsympathetic to others is unacceptable, but if you still choose to be unsympathetic then you will have to do it alone.

    As I said above, I think a "thank you" is appropriate, but I still prefer the "I forgive you." I think it forces the victim to be compassionate too. Forgiveness requires reaching out, understanding why someone has wronged you, and then working with them.

     
  • At 29 March, 2006 17:00, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I remember when Mom unknowingly taught me about being honest and owning up to mistakes. She did this by apologizing to me for treating me inappropriately. I did not expect her to apologize because she is the mother and I thought at the time that the same behavior was required of her. I of course know that Parents are not immune from needing to be good too.

    I learned much more from her example than by her words. That day I learned to correct any wrongs I commit, and later after reflecting on the experience I realized just how true it is that you must teach by example. That is the scary part for parents I would think, You have to walk the walk!

     

Post a Comment

<< Home